A boutique digital marketing consultancy with over 20 years of experience. Transparent, data-driven, committed to your goals.
Published on

003 | What is the Podcast ROI

003 | What is the Podcast ROI
Published on
September 14, 2020
003 | What is the Podcast ROI
Juhll Online Marketing Agency
Juhll Online Marketing Agency
A boutique digital marketing consultancy with over 20 years of experience. Transparent, data-driven, committed to your goals.


Chris Snyder
Company Name, Juhll Agency, Lifetime Wishes



Welcome back to the Snyder Showdown podcast. Host Chris Snyder is the successful, straight-talking Internet business expert with zero patience for losing, a potty mouth and a well earned chip on his shoulder.    

In this episode, Chris gets right to the point regarding business prospecting, podcast metrics and the return on investment he expects to see from his podcast. We learn about the challenges of gathering podcast metrics to measure audience reach, downloads and other key performance indicators (KPIs).

Chris discusses the straightforward and upfront approach he takes in not just podcasting, but in his day-to-day business as well.

Finally, Chris speaks to the importance of being direct and transparent to listeners of the Snyder Showdown podcast. At the end of the day, Chris’ goals are twofold: 

  1. Teach listeners how to run a successful business
  2. Attract new opportunities for Juhll agency and 

Transparency is a key business value for Chris. He talks more about this on "Having the Right Mindset" episode.


  • 00:54 – Chris reveals the goal of the Snyder Showdown podcast
  • 06:44 – The challenges of measuring audience reach and other podcast metrics
  • 09:55 – Structuring a successful show
  • 12:45 – Reasons to start a podcast
  • 16:42 – The trial and error process of prospecting
  • 20:17 – Why communication is key
  • 21:27 – How B2B and B2C clients are the same
  • 22:48 – Finding the right prospecting medium
  • 26:41 – Upholding an honest, raw and upfront approach with clients
  • 29:05 – Snyder Showdown's potential
  • 30:58 – What listeners get from the Snyder Showdown
  • 36:13 – The importance of delivering direct and transparent content
  • 38:49 – Are first impressions accurate?

Chris Snyder

Entrepreneur, Investor, Business & Growth Consultant

Chris is the founder of fintech online financial marketplace, as well as the President of, an online marketing agency providing full digital services for industries like Banking and Fintechs, Software as a service (Saas) or E-Commerce.

Video Section


Tweetable Quotes

“We take mad notes. We respond right away. We care about this shit. We care about those people. We don’t want them to lose their jobs.” (01:24)

“I know, instinctively, that it’s gonna be really hard to measure this. But, I also know that if anyone can figure out how to assign KPIs to this and measure ROI on this, it’ll be us. We will figure that out.” (07:52)

“It’s less about how many tweets you send or how many text messages you send that are toneless and faceless. And it’s more about, ‘Who is this human being? Are they trustworthy? Do they really wanna do the right thing?” (20:26)

“At the end of the day, one of my concerns is trying to figure out how to drag that honesty out of people about the situation and not just turn into one of those other shows or podcasts that are just kinda the same old, same old.” (26:21)

“We started the podcast to allow people to hear about the problems that we’re solving and how we solve them. And, hopefully, do it in a way that’s just direct, transparent and no bullshit.” (36:36)

“Generally, when you first meet me it’s really not a love at first sight type of relationship. It’s just not.” (39:02)

Mentioned Resources

You May Also Like

Chris Snyder

Entrepreneur, Investor, Business & Growth Consultant

Chris is the founder of fintech online financial marketplace, as well as the President of, an online marketing agency providing full digital services for industries like Banking and Fintechs, Software as a service (Saas) or E-Commerce.

Episode Transcript

On his third episode, Chris gets right to the point regarding business prospecting, podcast metrics and the return on investment he expects to see from his podcast.

Chris Snyder:  Hey, you paid this agency. They're actually not half bad. The person you have managing the agency is dumb. They're politically aligned internally. That's why they got the job, and now they don't know how to manage an agency because they don't have experience. The agency is actually really good and you guys don't know how to manage them. By the way, everyone who hits your website, they bail because your product sucks. That's why

Harry:  Welcome to Snyder Showdown, an original Juhll Agency Production. This is the show for unvarnished conversations about what's really happening in the world of digital advertising, with stories from the trenches about what's working and what's not, with your host, President of Juhll Agency and Founder-Operator and Investor in, Chris Snyder.

Chris Snyder:  The real, truly honest-to-God purpose of this podcast is not just to generate clients. The real, truly honest-to-God purpose of this podcast, is to tell people about what I believe is the right way to do this shit. Just like period, nobody knows who we are, nobody. They don't know how we do shit. We just helped a $1 billion company raise $165 million. Now they're worth $1.6 million and they fucking love us because of how we operate. We take mad notes. We respond right away. We care about this shit. We care about those people. We don't want them to lose their jobs.

Harry:  I think you just gave me an amazing sound bite to kick off the episode. I'm glad we're recording.

Chris Snyder:  We are. We are. But no, this is really like, I want to make sure that everybody's super clear, and honestly that's why I want a lot of this stuff recorded too because we never know how this is going to go and how you're going to be able to fit it in. That's your genius. There's no way I would be able to listen to all this and get this done, but really, over the last few weeks what I've been trying to do in my life is trying to simplify everything and crystallize everything, and make sure that I'm super clear on the path, because if you get too regimented on this stuff, and you're like, "Oh, I got to do this, and I got to do that, and I've got to do that, and I got to do this, and what do I stand for, and then I got to remember what my tagline is for a thing and a thing, and it's like, "Fuck, that's not me."

Chris Snyder: Really, full stop. The reason why I'm doing this is because I've been doing this kind of work for a long time with a ton of success. What we need to get better at, is letting people know that there's someone out there that can actually help them get this kind of work done. That's the point. I can do it myself. Our team can do it. I have partners that can do it, and you guys need a guide to get this done. There is someone out there. There's an alternative to big, bad bullshit, brand agency trying to sell you on a radio or a TV ad, or God-forbid, a display ad, but you don't even know how to bid, buy, and budget on Google and Facebook. You haven't even tried. You don't know what your KPIs are. You haven't tied your Salesforce Instance into custom audiences on Facebook. What are you people doing? Who are you listening to? Just call me. I'll take care of it for you, you will be happy, I promise. Right?

Harry: Yeah. I think the video is going to come in handy too because I think it's going to be good. I'm going to take a screenshot of this too because I think we can maybe do something interesting where we don't have video, but if we've got the two of us talking, we can ... I like this. This little rant is almost like a promo for your podcast, because I want to just take it out and make it a less than two minute segment, and then drop it either and make a quick like movie thing with the captions and put that on LinkedIn or ... Because those play right away, and those are catchy. I think there's a lot of stuff that's going to set people off and-

Chris Snyder: I hope it does, and guess how much I give a fuck, zero, because you know what? This is the way I've lived my whole life, there are people out there that really, really do care about what people think around them. Unfortunately or fortunately, I don't know. iIt's not a judgment, they live their lives based on how people view what they're doing, or how they're doing it, or how much money they make, or what kind of cars they drive, or how active their kids are in athletics or not, or [inaudible 00: 04: 43] fuck man.

Chris Snyder: If you're going to live your life like that and care so much about everybody else, you're just going to wake up one day and be empty. It's tempting, right? Like I have fear that I'm going to say something stupid on here, and it's going to polarize a bunch of people, and then there's gonna be that fear that, "Oh, I just said something really stupid and I may have lost the opportunity to get a client." Or, "One of my current clients listened to my podcast, doesn't agree with my approach, and now they're actively seeking another agency to replace me because they don't like my approach."

Chris Snyder: You have to think about that for a minute, then you have to go, "Well, wait a second. Maybe they should look for another agency." What am I afraid of? Because honestly, at the end of the day, if they don't like how I'm operating and all of our numbers, show up on a spreadsheet, anyway. Really, what you're saying is, you like money but you don't like ... You like success, you like hitting your numbers. Your team doesn't mind me personally or members of my team personally. We hold you guys accountable, but you listen to our podcast, and since you're the boss, you're going to go find a different agency because Chris is polarizing. Fucking whatever, go find another agency, then

Harry: I tell clients when they started courting, to just let their personality come through because you want to repel the people that aren't a fit as fast as you want to attract the people that are.

Chris Snyder: Correct. You know what's funny about our business and also just in life in general, every single time, what might be perceived as bad happening or you lose something, right? You lose a big client, and then you're like, "Oh my God." The next corner that you turn, it was all for the better. It was all for the better. It's always for the better. It's always for the better.

Harry: We could talk about this later from a marketing perspective, but you've got the knowledge because you do this with clients on a day-to-day basis. It's interesting to see what you can do at some of these episodes from a traffic perspective, just because you know the feel, and you know ... The biggest challenge in the past has always been to get people to measure downloads and you can't, because you can't put a tracking pixel on Apple podcasts or on

Harry: You can send them to the Apple page, but how do you know if they've subscribed? The only way to see that is through the download numbers and in [inaudible 00: 07: 05], which is for a play which is helpful across all devices, but then how long do they play for? Then you can only see that in the Apple ecosystem, and then that only helps you with Apple iOS devices. It's a bit fragmented, but you could definitely measure traffic too like a landing page on your site. You can also do targeting against interests on Facebook, for a specific topic we're covering. You might have some out of the box ideas of stuff that works for clients that you can try for some of these episodes.

Chris Snyder: Yeah. It's funny. Everything you just said right there, it's funny because I actually went to the ... I went to the side of the fence that are usually criticized brand marketing people for, which is, "You know what? I'm just going to focus on my product and focus on what we're doing, and the rest is going to work itself out, because I know instinctively that it's going to be really hard to measure this." I also know that if anyone can figure out how to assign KPIs to this and measure ROI on this, it'll be us. We will figure that out.

Harry: Well, that's exciting too, because probably another topic for a separate discussion, but I'm obviously [inaudible 00: 08: 17] well and deep into the podcasting industry. It'd be interesting if you created an offering that works, and you tested it, and we test it together and you're like, "You want a guaranteed way to spend a $1000 or spent $2000 and guarantee like a growth in listenership, Chris just figured it out.

Chris Snyder: By the way, what does that even mean? Does that mean like, "Okay. You've got a lot of Twitter followers, which again, I go back to the [crosstalk 00: 08: 40] just bullshit [inaudible 00: 08: 41].

Harry: No. It has to tie into downloads on a podcasting perspective, because that's the one thing we can measure, and that we can see that everyone agrees what the metric is there.

Chris Snyder: Exactly. Yeah. Well, look, at some point, I'm doing this to learn a lot about this business and also doing this so people can understand what our agency is about, they can understand what I'm about, but I'm also doing this because there's gonna be some really interesting business problems to solve once we get in, even as it relates to framework. I'm curious and interested in how do we tackle these topics? How do we quantify this stuff? How do we know what resonates? How do we measure it? How often do we do it? What format is the show?

Chris Snyder: Is it an interview show or is it a ramble on show? That's highly structure that has high production value, right? I don't know. But I do know this, going and getting an MBA, I can go and do all the research on the planet and look at all the podcasting research on the planet and spend thousands of dollars synthesizing all of this and noodling over all of this, or I can just do this shit. I'm Just got to do it, right?

Harry: Yeah.

Chris Snyder: The rest is going gonna work itself out. That's what's going to happen.

Harry: That's fun. I get the sense that you like tackling problems like this.

Chris Snyder: I do, yeah. I do. I mean, look, at the end of the day, if we had three or four people on this show, not different than what you see on a newscast from CNN or any of the other shows that are out there. There's a zillion new shows out there. Even ESPN. Think about ESPN. I love ESPN show in the morning. I rarely watch the NFL football games because they take too long and I'm busy, but these guys have put together a three-hour show on Sunday morning that is almost, if not more intriguing in some cases than the actual football games.

Chris Snyder: I'm not kidding about that. These shows are set up to have each one of the experts talk about their respect, like you got Randy Moss, you got Moss, he's got a nice little segment, right? It's mixed gender as well, So there's usually a lady that drives the whole thing, right? You've got the old buy, Berman. I know he's retired now, but he used to be there like as an anchor. You think about all this stuff about the structure and the psychology of those shows, and it's like, why can't the show be like that? Why can't we have three or four people that are good at what they do? They've played at a high level, and we're having this discussion every Sunday morning, and we're having fun, and we're also helping people in the process?

Chris Snyder: Why not, right? ESPN is entertainment. I'm not sure they're helping anybody. Maybe they're helping someone enjoy that little part of their morning that they would have not otherwise enjoyed Monday through Saturday. That's great. Hey, if someone enjoys this and they enjoy the experts we bring on and we have a good session about ... I mean, "Hey, maybe we'll even disagree, who knows?"

Harry: That's why it's called the showdown.

Chris Snyder: Right. Maybe we'll do that.

Harry: It's interesting because we eased our way into another topic. I think we should maybe just tease this apart a little bit, and maybe have the episode be about how you thought about organizing this podcast, and it could be maybe even something before the last one about accountability. Because if we talked about some interesting stuff around your mindset going into this, how to measure ROI, and I think it's something people think about when they're a) creating content, or even creating something specific as a podcast.

Harry: It's top of mind, and it's ... even discussions I think you have on every dollar spent, the client wants to know what the ROI is. Now you're yourself in that position. I wonder if you could dig a little bit deeper about the thoughts you had about the different ways to measure ROI.

Chris Snyder: There's a couple things to unpack here. One of the things you unpack is, hey, what is the structure and the framework for the show? Then, how do we measure ROI? I think what I could do is, I could start with why we're even doing this. Why we're doing this is based on something that I said earlier, which is you never know what's gonna happen, and if you lose your biggest client or something really bad happens, it forces you into a situation where now you have to do a full court press on business development, something I'm really good at, and I've done my whole entire life, but I haven't had to do that as much because our business has been so strong on referrals because everybody knows who we are. They know what we're really good at or so I thought. Everybody knew who we were.

Chris Snyder: We basically lost like 90% of our top line revenue in four months last year. That forced us into a situation to go out and do full-blown, hardcore business development no matter what. You had to figure this out. One of the things that I started with were these companies that ... you get the emails, and it's like, "Hey, we get you leads and it cost $2,000 a month, or it costs $3,000 a month, or it cost $8,000 a month. We're going to set appointments for you, Chris Snyder with qualified prospects, and it's going to be amazing." For me, I was like, "Well, look, we're already getting our asses kicked. We already hemorrhaging money. What's another two grand a month to have four more conversations, five more conversations, 10 more conversations in a month with a bunch of prospects to sell them on the fact that our agency is amazing, and we can help improve their business, whatever."

Chris Snyder: I actually paid a firm like $15,000 over six months to set appointments for me. All I had to do was get on the phone and talk to these ideal customer profiles, 'what's your ICP ideal customer profile?' I'm like, "Okay, well, we need someone that's spending money on digital advertising. They need to look like this. They need to have a company this size. They need to have a marketing team that's like that." You go through the whole thing. At the end of the day, do you know how many sales I got out of that? Fucking zero.

Harry: I was hoping you'd say at least five or something.

Chris Snyder: No, no, I got fucking zero. So I'm like, "Okay. These guys were sending these emails to inboxes and in retrospect, now that I think back on it, I actually like to give folks runway because it's not easy to just fire up, start a campaign, and then two weeks later start delivering me warm leads that fit our ideal customer profile perfectly, right?

Chris Snyder: You write copy. You have emails. They go out. People open them, right? Then these people are setting appointments. These appointments wind up on your calendar, and then it's like, "Oh, hi. I'm Billy from Timbuktu manufacturing company in Kansas City, Missouri. How do you spell digital?" And I'm like, "Dude, this is going to be a problem, right?" Not that I'm not willing to help folks like that, but the problem is, is that, our expertise in what we do, is specifically designed for companies that get it, and they're ready to step on the gas and really go fast for the next six months, and create massive winning.

Chris Snyder: I kept getting these phone calls, and I kept getting these prospects that were so completely out of ... like what we're trying to do. It happened just at the exact same time when I was listening to Daily Grind Podcasts where I found you and I'm like, "I think the problem here is we're not in the right medium. We're not in the right medium." I'm the president of Juhll Agency. I've started another business I talk with investors. I work with CEOs. I work with CMOs. I work with Executive Directors of marketing at big companies and small companies. Are those people really contactable via some like bullshit prospect email? They probably get 800 of those a day."

Chris Snyder: Dude, I'm in this business and I fell for it. I was like, "Anything's better than nothing. Right?" What a waste of money that was. Yeah, we got all the appointments and I could measure everything, And they would say, "Okay, we sent this many emails. Your open rate is this. Your click through rate is that, your appointment rate is Y. We got you 50 qualified appointments. I'm like, "They're not qualified. Half these people didn't show up for meetings. I gave you guys chances."

Chris Snyder: It's all good. It's not their fault. We gave it a test that didn't work. A lot of tests don't work. That's why they're called tests. This notion that podcasting can actually help us tell our story, tell about these experiences. I think it's also important from a prospect standpoint, if you're going to hire our agency, you're going to want to know the person you're working with.

Chris Snyder: No different than us hiring employees or contractors to do work and me suggesting earlier that it takes months to get some of these people up to speed or weeks to understand if they're going to be a good fit. Look, go listen to the podcast. If you don't like it, don't call me back ever. It's fine. You're not going to hurt my feelings. There's millions of fish in the sea. Just focusing on the medium, they're not going to be able to get that through email.

Chris Snyder: Then you have to have a series of phone calls to build trust and likeability, is there something about what I'm saying? That is really like they don't like, or is there someone saying that really is, they do like? If they didn't listen to the podcast, and we're three months into our relationship and shit hits the fan and they're like, "Oh, I really don't like this guy for this particular reason. It's his style. " It's what you can't change. You can't change work ethic, can't change style, can't change who you are.

Chris Snyder: Hopefully, if that person listened to the podcast because this, my hypothesis, this is the right medium for me right now. The numbers, as you suggested earlier, will prove or disprove that. If the numbers suggest that this is not working, "I'm sorry, Harry. We got a lot of good conversations. It has been fun." Good news, we get a lot of time, right? We had a lot of time and it's kind of fun.

Harry: But it's true. I mean, I think having been working on this with you the past couple months, and having met in person, there's something about this medium lends itself well to hearing the pure unadulterated you, and when you mention that interview process, it's you putting on your best show, it's them putting on their best show, sort of what you talked about with referrals and resumes and all that sort of stuff. You want to hire them, they want to be higher. You want to establish this relationship with that client, so you never really get the true you and what it's going to be like when the stuff hits the fan. I think if they just listened to that first episode, they'll know right away if they're going to want to work with you.

Chris Snyder: Yeah. Well, and it's all about ... you know what's interesting about human beings is it's all about the conversation, and I think it's funny as much as we've gone digital, it's less about how many tweets you send, or how many text message you send that are toneless and faceless, and it's more about who is this human being? Are they trustworthy? Do they really want to do the right thing? Are they doing the right thing? Are there people around them that I could call that might suggest they're doing the thing? There's just ... it's all about communication. It's all about communication.

Harry: Especially in a business like this where communication could cost you millions of dollars, miscommunication could cost you millions of dollars. If you're not clear on a communication style, or it's not one that fits with you, you're both setting yourself up for a ton of failure and a ton of lost money and time just because you're not on the same page.

Chris Snyder: That goes with personal relationships, it goes with relationship with your family, with your significant other, business relationships. It's funny when people talk to me about, "Oh, why should I hire you for B2B marketing or B2C marketing? How can you be good at both?" I'm like, "Oh, business people aren't consumers? Consumers aren't business people? I don't understand what the point is to this conversation. There isn't such a thing as some big divergence between B2B, and B2C." Everyone is having a conversation.

Chris Snyder: You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to hire a copywriter that knows the shit ton more about B2B than B2C. That's all I'm going to do, and we're still going to put that stuff on Facebook. And guess what? Instead of targeting like middle age moms who want subscription shoes or whatever, or middle aged dads who only want to look at Budweiser on their Facebook Feed, I'm going to target middle age business people that work at manufacturing companies that do X, Y, Z, and my business copywriter is going to put that copy in front of them.

Chris Snyder: That's such a stupid thing for people to see like, "Well, do you do B2B or B2C? It's like, "We talk to people."

Harry: Yeah, people to people.

Chris Snyder: Yeah, we do people to people. We talk to people. We put your ads in front of people. That's what we do. We have to find the right medium, right? Unfortunately or fortunately, however, which way you want to look at it, Facebook and Google generally is the right answer to every single question you want to ask about paid media. "Oh, so how do you do it? I just put ads on Google and Facebook." "Really?" "Yeah, it's super simple."

Chris Snyder: It's not. I'm just saying that to be sarcastic, but the end of the day you write copy, you troll through millions of keywords very analytically and quantitatively. You figure out what people respond to what ads, right? What are the clicks cost. They go to landing pages. Those pages say something about your business, or they have a video that allows you to really have a conversation and then you move through the funnel. I Don't get it. It's not that hard.

Harry: The other thing you talked about as you were talking about the structure and the fact that it is unstructured, but you use the model of the ESPN show as the basis for not only the name, but this idea of picking experts in the field. I think that's really important because it's a great analogy because if you're bringing in the best of the best, and you allow them to speak freely liKe we've been doing with these past introductory episodes, and they feel like it's an environment where they can talk about stuff that they maybe don't talk about in other shows, because people are not this honest about what's really happening. I think we're going to have some interesting conversations.

Chris Snyder: Well, this is, yeah. Honestly, this is something that I've thought about quite a bit. If you look at a show like ESPN and they're doing analysis, "analysis" on the retired football players in this particular example, if Randy Moss is like, "Oh, you gotta to go up and get the ball at the highest point." I don't think he's holding back against whoever he's doing analysis on like saying, "You didn't jump high enough." Or, "You don't have the ability to jump high enough." Or "You were never as good as me because I would have made that catch." Because that business for the football business.

Chris Snyder: In another episode I basically said, no business is harder than our business, right? Digital advertising, performance digital advertising. I did say that. I take that back. Any of the professional sports are just as hard. It's the same damn thing. If you're a football player and you don't perform, you will be fired. You might not make it until the end of the season. You certainly won't make it to the next contract year, but at the end of the day, I think that my concern right now is trying to figure out how to actually get people to be honest, because let's think about it. I can be honest because I don't give a fuck, right?

Chris Snyder: I have everything I want. I'm not ultra rich. I don't have much, but what I do have is the stuff that I created. Super happy family, awesome business. All my clients are happy. Everybody's good to go. I'm not Warren Buffet, don't care. But there's a lot of people out there that have to give a fuck about what they say, and they can't be honest because they got to go to work the next day potentially. They got to go to work the next day.

Chris Snyder: Honestly, we can't have really a bunch of folks running around just saying whatever they want to say with no repercussions. It doesn't work for everybody. It might work for Gary V. Who knows? Maybe it'll work for me. I don't know. It might work for other people who have ... it might work for ...

Harry: Tony Robbins?

Chris Snyder: Tony Robbins. I guess now that you stack it up, it works for everyone that has made it to some degree, but at the end of day one of my concerns is trying to figure out how to drag that honesty out of people about the situation, and not just turn into one of those other shows or podcasts that are just kind of the same old, same old.

Harry: Is that something you push clients to in your discussions? Obviously you're not producing podcasts for folks, but in the conversations you have with them, are you this ... you probably know the answer already, but are you this upfront and raw and honest in terms of managing expectations about what's really going to Happen?

Chris Snyder: Absolutely. Look, okay, so let's play this out. Let's pull the string on this. "Hello client. Oh, everything's great. How's the weather? Oh, do you want to go to dinner? Oh, but, right." Come on. I mean, seriously? That is all bullshit. At the end of the day, what the client wants, whether he or she says this or not, is they need results, right? Instead of acting like I actually care about all that other stuff, I say, "Look, what are your goals? What are your goals? What do you want out of this? Because I can tell you right now, we might as well not even get started if we can agree on this stuff upfront because I'll just go right to ... and I've said this a lot, and maybe I'll change saying it, but maybe not. Because if we don't hit our goals, we get fired.

Chris Snyder: Let's just skip all the bullshit. You got to tell me what I'm here to do and you've got to be super clear about it. If you're not clear about it, I can help you get clarity on it. For sure, I'll help you get clarity on it, because the last thing I want to do when we sign that paperwork, is to start work and not be clear about how we're all being measured.

Chris Snyder: That's it. If you can't figure out how you're going to measure us, I have some barometer to coach our team into hitting those results, and then coming back to you 90 days from now or six months from now, or a year from now when the retainer's up and going, "Here's what you told us to do, here's what we did it. Now pay me, and pay me more and renew." Because it's harder to get a new client than it is to renew a relationship or to grow a relationship.

Chris Snyder: Who are you kidding if you're not having those conversations? If you think having that conversation is hard right away, try having the conversation with the client calls and he's like, "Dude, I don't really know how to say this, but it's really not working out, and I throw all your shit out the window and all your stuff's on the street." What's the difference?

Harry: Exactly.

Chris Snyder: What is the difference?

Harry: It's best to know that upfront.

Chris Snyder: It's just best that we all just get it over with up front, and we all understand what gets my shit thrown out onto the sidewalk. It's just best that way for all of us.

Harry: No surprises.

Chris Snyder: No, no surprises.

Harry: Anything else that comes to mind in terms of what you were thinking as you were getting kicked off the ground? The idea that it's ... the stuff that you hadn't heard that needed to be heard, that you were going to be direct and honest with people, and that you were clear that there's going to be different way in how you're going to measure a return. Anything else come to mind?

Chris Snyder: No. I think I like to learn, and I like to experiment, and I think I'm really curious about what kinds of opportunities this can provide for our business. I'm really curious about that. You know what? If the answer is zero, it's just another test. I can say that given the experience I have in the clients that I have today and the clients that I've had historically, I think generally they pay for this. This is what they're paying for. I'm giving it away for free. I'm not charging for this. You can sign up on You can put your email address in, and then every time I give advice or a recommendation, or I talk about a difficult situation, or I talk about something that we did well or one of our clients did well, or we had an interview, it's fucking free.

Chris Snyder: It's free. You know what you pay for. You don't pay to listen to me tell you what you should do. You pay for a world class team to actually get it done.

Harry: The implementation.

Chris Snyder: That's what you pay for. Because guess what? There's a lot of folks out there that can ramble on for hours, and hours, and hours about this stuff, they're not getting shit done for you. And, yeah, it's motivating and inspiring to know that that human being exists to motivate and inspire you. Then when you turn it off, you're like, "Oh, how the fuck am I going to get this done?" Right?

Harry: Exactly.

Chris Snyder: What I hope happens is that all the people out there that have podcasts that are talking about this stuff at a high level, that are just going to charge you $400 an hour to maybe talk to you privately, which is fine. Like, "Hey, maybe I'll do that. Maybe if you're aggressive enough, maybe we'll have that conversation" Maybe I won't charge you. Who knows what'll happen. At the end of the day, what happens next?

Chris Snyder: I'm actually providing a way for you to get that shit done. That is what, I think makes us different than a lot of the other people.

Harry: What's the football analogy? You're providing the blocking?

Chris Snyder: Yeah. The blocking and the tackling, right? I mean, look, at the end of the day, if the head coach to showed up and was like, "I'm a genius." [inaudible 00: 31: 47] is a genius. We're probably going to get hate mail from, Who knows? I don't give a shit. At the end of the day, head coach shows up and is like, "Fuck. There's no players." Now what? Fucking now what? Are you going to play a video game and win? Maybe you could play the other opposing head coach on Madden's NFL football 2050, and you guys can battle it out, and then you're going to win.

Chris Snyder: That's not going to happen, anyway. Hopefully, we can provide a little bit of the aspiration, a little bit, not intentionally, but a little bit. If it motivates you, great. If it doesn't, don't care. A lot of real world situations that you're dealing with that hopefully will be helpful. Then when you get to the end you're like, "Okay, I took some notes. I'm going to go do that thing with the Google thing, or that thing with the Facebook thing, or that thing with the website thing, or that thing with the depth thing. I know how to go do that myself, and I was just looking for validation that we were doing it the right way. This guy's doing it right now. He's got a few ideas. We're doing it the same way. I think we're on the right track."

Chris Snyder: Good for you. Or you might listen to it and say, "Hey, that guy's an idiot. I'm going to call him and tell him he's doing it wrong, because it seems like he's suffering." Clearly, he's suffering because he started a podcast to talk about his suffering." Maybe they'll call and help me out. Shit. Maybe they're like, "Dude, you know the trick is right here." I'll be like, "Oh, thank God."

Harry: Or you're just going to be a breath of fresh air that is going to just totally knock them for a loop and be like, "You know what? I think this guy knows what he's talking about. I should give him a call."

Chris Snyder: Maybe, but at the end of the day, what I hope to provide is a path to actually getting shit done. If someone calls me and they're like, "Oh, I've got a $50 a day, Google Adwords." Fine. I'm like, "I'm sorry man. I can't help you. I can't help you with that. By the way, I don't know how to solve that problem. We only know how to do big shit, and that's a problem in and of itself. There is a bunch of people running around that probably know how to aggregate $150 a day spends on Google and make your account the highest performing account on the planet. I don't know how to do that, so don't call me with that.

Chris Snyder: If you call me and you're like, "Hey, we're paying an agency millions of dollars a year to solve these problems, and we're just not seeing the results." I can probably solve that problem, right? I can solve that problem, or I can make a recommendation on how you solve that problem. Or I can come in under some kind of a consulting arrangement and say, "Put me in the room. It's super cheap that way." Or I'll at least give you, hopefully give you the peace of mind in knowing that you're getting the best out of what you're getting, and maybe your product sucks. Maybe your product sucks. Seriously, it happens.

Chris Snyder: You paid this agency, they're actually not half bad. The person you have managing the agency is dumb. They're politically aligned internally. That's why they got the job. Now they don't know how to manage an agency because they don't have experience. The agency is actually really good, and you guys don't know how to manage them. By the way, everyone who hits your website, they bailed because your product sucks. That's why. That's the problem.

Chris Snyder: Go fix your product, because me taking that business is not going to change anything. It's just going to set you back another year and what you should be focused on is fixing your shitty product.

Harry: The lipstick on the pig.

Chris Snyder: That's right, yeah. It's all about product. By the way, it's no different than this podcast, right? This podcast, I hope we can create a not shitty product. We will figure out what the determining factor is on that probably after, maybe, I don't know. My hypothesis is like, 10 episodes. Let's see if we can measure downloads and lifetime value of subscribers. We'll figure all that stuff out. I'm sure people will write stuff and say stuff that will ask us to do more or say, "Dude, you need to shut your face because this is stupid of me It doesn't make sense." I don't know, but we got to build the product. We're building the product right now and we'll figure out where it goes.

Harry: Yeah. Well, it's good point to wrap up on and I think it's food for thought for people who are thinking about a) Starting a podcast, while you're doing it, what's the reason behind it? Are you intending to be honest? Are you just intending to put on a show that's just going to get lost in the noise like all these other shows you've listened to? Where does the ultimate message that you want to deliver? The sense that I get with the show is that it's transparency. That's like, if I had to sum it up in one word, it's like transparency.

Chris Snyder: Yeah. I think we started the podcast to allow people to hear about the problems that we're solving and how we solve them, and hopefully do it in a way that's just direct, transparent and no bullshit. If that's interesting to folks to hear stuff that is transparent with no layer of bullshit that actually helps meet business needs, great. Great because if they like it and it resonates, they're gonna call us and we're probably going to get some work out of the deal.

Chris Snyder: That's fine. I'm looking for work. I'm not just shameless. I'm not looking to be a podcast show. I'm looking to talk about our business and the problems we solve, getting back to the point so you can call us, so we can execute and not just talk about it. That is the point. The podcast is an attempt to communicate this in a different median that feels like you're in here with me. This is what you're buying when you get Juhll agency and the Juhll team.

Chris Snyder: We're not all like this, but ...

Harry: That'll be a tense if all team was like this.

Chris Snyder: We're not all like this, trust me. We are very complimentary. At the end of the day, this podcast is. I mean, that's what it's for. That's great, and it'll be a conversion rate, right? It will be like, "Okay, we got 10,000 listeners, half of them hit stop after 32 seconds, and then the other half lasted the full 38 minutes, and then other people that lasted 38 minutes. How many people came back and downloaded? How did we figure out how to get their names because they never signed up on my website? Dude, we'll figure it out. I don't know. We'll figure it out.

Harry: That's good stuff. I'm excited to be partnering with you on this. It's really exciting and interesting because you're the direct conduit to the listener, and there's like all the filters are stripped away. It's literally you speaking into the ear of the listener. There's no website. There's no brochure. There's no marketing copy. It's coming from your mouth to their ears, which is pretty refreshing.

Chris Snyder: You're gonna hate it or not like it right away? That's good. You know what's funny? My friends tell me ... and I have actually have a lot of like really good friends from college, but they're like, "You generally, just generally when you first meet me, it's not 'love at first sight' type of relationship. It's just not. It's not.

Chris Snyder: I will say that after you get to know me and you get through whatever your pre-conceived notions are about me, it's all good, and people know that. I've got friends that I've had for 30 years that, they know I'd do anything for them. They'd do anything for me. Those are the types of relationships that were born out of like literally a fist fight in the dorm hall. Literally born out of like a full blind side on the football field just because they're like, "Fucking, this guy's a prick and I don't like him." Where did you get that?

Harry: And now you're buds?

Chris Snyder: Yeah. Now we're friends. Where did you get that? That's not very nice at all.

Harry: Thanks for listening. Don't forget to head on over to where we have full show notes for each and every episode summary, timestamps any links mentioned in the show and a couple of tweetable quotes for you to share at the episode concepts, There, you'll be able to sign up for our newsletter to be notified when new episodes are available. See you next week.



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