Jason Stein is a wellness business coach who offers a unique approach to wellbeing in the workplace. Both an integrative health specialist and veteran business coach, Jason has helped organizations achieve healthy profits, healthy relationships, and healthy impact for more than three decades. Jason sits down with Chris Snyder to discuss how wellness and self-care are integral to entrepreneurship and a successful, lengthy career.
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"There's two schools of thought: go Blazing Saddles and give everything you got and don't have a plan B, or get a part time job so the money stress doesn't clobber you. And depending on who you are, there's no right answer. You have to go with whatever rhythm." - Jason Stein
"An architect often writes down the draft from the vision they have on the CAD or some other computer program, or they hand-write it. And once it's hand drawn, it goes from a vision to a material reality." - Jason Stein
"I think we've got to take back the power. We have to take back the power in dollars. And we definitely have to take back the power health." - Jason Stein
"Majority of people...were getting sick from the place they spent most of their waking hours, which is their workplace. And if your workplace is killing you. You gotta get creative. You have to redesign your life as a client." - Jason Stein
"A young person was diagnosed with a terminal illness and they had been putting in 60, 70 hours worth of work every week, every year, year after year. So you gotta start to think: end game - what is it? If I faced my own mortality, what do I want to spend my days doing?" - Jason Stein
"And so the biggest thing you can do in the land of entrepreneurship is you've got to start with your health, because if you're not healthy enough to weather the storms and to take on the stress and to really rise up, it's going to be the health care that takes you out." - Jason Stein
Chris Snyder [00:00:43] Hello, everyone, Chris Snyder here, host of the Snyder showdown, president at Juhll Agency, and founder of FinTech Startup Banks.com. On this show, we take a no B.S. approach to business success and failure told through the stories of the top executives who have lived them. Join us today as we get the unfiltered backstories behind successful brands. A quick word from our sponsor. Juhll is a full-service digital consultancy, and we focus on helping executives solve their toughest digital growth problems while working as an extension of the executive team. To learn more, you can go to Juhll dot com. That's Juhll.com. Or you can email me directly. It's Chris@juhll.dot com. OK, without further ado, today's guest is Jason Stein. He is a wellness and business coach who offers a unique approach to well-being in the workplace, both in integrative health specialists and veteran business coach. Jason has helped organizations achieve healthy profits, healthy relationships, and a healthy impact for more than three decades. In the wake of COVID-19, Jason is here to share with us how overall workplace wellness is important. Now more than ever. Welcome, Jason.
Jason Stein [00:02:04] Thank you. Thanks for having me, Chris.
Chris Snyder [00:02:0 a6] Absolutely. I'm super excited to get this kicked off. This is you've had this interview book for probably two or three weeks. We knew that you were needed now more than ever. But before we get started with what you do, tell us a little bit about your upbringing, where you grew up in how you got to where you are today.
Jason Stein [00:02:27] Such a winding road. Let's say I'll start in the beginning. I come from a blended family. So my mom was divorced and remarried and I lived in Michigan and we moved. My stepdad moved us to the country and Auburn Hills, Michigan, right outside of Pontiac. And I grew up for many years in the country. So we were on about twenty-five acres. My sisters had horses, you know, bow and arrow, B.B. gun, the whole shebang. And my stepdad was a serial entrepreneur that just kept failing. He recently knew how to create an idea and fail.
Chris Snyder [00:03:11] That's easy to do, by the way. In retrospect, as we look back on our careers, you probably looked at it. You go, wait a sec. It's not that easy.
Jason Stein [00:03:19] Well, I'll jump forward and then jump back again. And he fell until like the early 40s. He got into real estate and property management and he just succeeded again and again and again. And he was in Maui and created one of the largest property management real estate there and then went to Santa Fe, New Mexico. And unfortunately, he passed four years ago, but he taught me so much along the way. And so the first lesson was really at 10 years old. And he had a building that he didn't know what to do with. And I have come from that's marriage, a sister and two sisters and a brother. And he said I don't know what to do with this building. If you guys have an idea for a business, I'll support it in the upstart.
Chris Snyder [00:04:10] At 10 years old?
Jason Stein [00:04:11] Yeah. And so I'm the youngest. So it was 10, 12, 14 and 16. And we decided to create a dry cleaner's because this is, you know, before the Internet. It's like - dry cleaners back then didn't do the dry cleaning. They just worked the till, wrote tickets, did good customer service, and made a profit. Yeah. And so we did that for years and we and we did really well. And it taught me customer service. It taught me how to count back change. It taught me how to clean up mistakes when we made them. And it was like my learning ground to get started. And my mom and stepdad moved to Albuquerque, New Mexico. And it was very sad, like going from, you know, 20 plus acres to a lot where your neighbors are, you know, stone throw there next door on all on all corners. But he continued through those years to give me the lessons like he had me sign a work permit waiver so I could get my first job at 14. And I remember Dunkin Donuts. That's where I work because, my God, I'm old. You know, I turned 50 this year. I'm a young, old. But I. I remember I wanted to work somewhere where I could make tips because the salary then or the like minimum wage was $3.35 an hour. Yeah. That sounds about right. Yeah. So I would make tips because all the police officers would come in and throw a dollar on the counter and get their donuts. And so from there I just kept learning skills of building relationships. And I, you know, I would see my pop. So I have a stepdad and a pop. And they taught me different lessons when my stepdad and my grandfather were just serial entrepreneurs. My pop was academia. And he kept. He's a sociologist and so kept climbing the ladder higher and higher in academia. And they both taught me two things. They both taught me relationships are the most important aspect of your working environment. And they both taught me you will hurt yourself because they were workaholics. So they both work literally like 70 plus hours a week. Yeah. And so it was my goal at a very early age to learn how I could be a successful entrepreneur or at least do what I love. Wow. Not working 70 hours. Yeah. Really. I wanted to learn how to do it in about 32. That's difficult to do when you're an entrepreneur. Yeah. Yes. Oh, yes and no. It's difficult to do if you have like a ten thousand dollar nut to crack or a twenty thousand dollar not a month to crack. But if you get your expenses way low and you live simply not that hard to do. It's easier than you would think.
Chris Snyder [00:07:33] Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I think a lot of us get over our skis. We're chasing and we're chasing and we're chasing and we climb the mountain and we're not satisfied. It's I think it's part of our personality. I think sometimes when you grow up with nothing and you have a chip on your shoulder and you're like, I'm going to fucking show you guys. Right? You think it can't be done? I'm going to do it. And then I look up one day and you're 45 years old, then you realize that you like what I don't like what you don't like. Like what have I done here in 70 hour weeks at risk? Have you enjoyed the ride? Really? Like, those are some of the questions we have to ask ourselves as entrepreneurs because if you're not enjoying the ride, I don't understand the point of doing this.
Jason Stein [00:08:20] So I've enjoyed the ride and I've learned. Discipline. I've learned revenue streams, I've learned. Strategic alliances. And so when I was 18, I went to college. I started in business and my economics teacher at Arizona State University was on Reagan's cabinet. And it was the driest lecture. And I realized I wasn't going to be able to get a degree in business. I was really interested in human behavior. So I switched to psychology. And I graduated, I traveled. I did a year abroad. I learn different things. And I was on my way to go to grad school and get a Ph.D. in industrial-organizational psychology. And really, you know, those are the guys that do the research of what's the buying behavior, what are the patterns, how can we understand humans when it comes to commerce?
Chris Snyder [00:09:20] This is ideo. This is the ideo. This is the ideo crowd. Back in the 70s and 80s when they did all this stuff for Apple. And. That's right. Started the, you know. They were well in front of their time.
Jason Stein [00:09:32] And so I was on my way when I literally remember I was in Albuquerque, New Mexico. And there's the saying of Bugs Bunny. I took a left in Albuquerque and I was at a job fair with a friend looking for a job. And there was a graduate school in Chinese medicine. And years earlier, I had had a urinary tract infection and it went on for two years. And I kid you not. I had every antibiotic, every invasive procedure. And like unknown origin is a very common term in Western medicine. Yeah. And I went to an acupuncturist and herbs and acupuncture. Gone in two, three weeks. So two years of agony and then two to three weeks healing. And so I was just drawn to try graduate school and Chinese medicine. And my family thought I was crazy. I thought I was a little crazy, but I realized I was going to apply. And if accepted. I was just going to go for one semester and then drop out. If I wasn't into it, then. I didn't tell anyone else. That was my plan. But that was my plan. And after one semester of hearing my story again and again, if Western medicine failing people in Chinese medicine, really overcoming and helping like knee pain, back pain, sleeping just again and again and again, I realized I was going to finish. And so it's a three-year program in the State of New Mexico that your education license is a masters. But the state gives you the designation of Doctor of Oriental Medicine. So at 28, I became a doctor of Oriental medicine. And back then, I was into, you know, Tony Robbins and just empowerment And how could I make myself better? And I decided to use the principles that I learned in Chinese medicine to give a workshop called Awaken the Healer with them. And I planned it for six months. And I was super excited. And I put up the registration and I think there were six people in the room. And part of me was like, oh, blew this one. Another part was like, there's six people in the room. Yeah. Well, one of those participants happened to be the marketing director for a hospital and they had been looking for a Doctor of Oriental Medicine to Upstart in Integrative Medicine program. Interesting. And from the time I gave that workshop to the time they offered me the position was about six months. And I was, I believe, the first integrative medicine program director in the state of New Mexico and HealthSouth was a rehabilitation hospital. They focused a lot on rehab. They had a physiatrist. They had a physical therapist. They had occupational therapists. And they brought me in. And I was in way over my head. I was like Doogie Howser. I think I was 28 at the time. You know, I felt pretty cool because my name badge said Dr. Stein and I got a pager with the job. So but I also was really green and I was nervous. So what I did is I use my dad's skills of collaboration and I immediately recruited the school I graduated from to do a residency inside the hospital. And then I was like, let's repeat this with the massage school. And then I brought in yoga and Tai Chi and they had a warm water pool. Most people don't know Ai Chi but it's Tai Chi in warm water. And we started getting some results. And I had a dream job. I was on top of the world, but I really never chose New Mexico. My parents chose Albuquerque. And I'm an outdoors guy and I've always wanted to live in the Pacific Northwest. And at the time, I knew there was HealthSouth out here, too, so I figure I'm young, I'm naive, I'll hop in the car, move to Portland, Oregon, and just do it again. And it didn't quite work.
Chris Snyder [00:14:04] It never does, does it?
Jason Stein [00:14:05] I got here, I had the meeting set up and like a week before I got here, HealthSouth was entertaining some bankruptcy and downsizing. And it just wasn't going to work out. So a year was this. This was probably two thousand.
Chris Snyder [00:14:22] OK. So just before the bubble. The tech bubble.
Jason Stein [00:14:25] Yeah. So I use my skills. I transferred my license, I started it up a little acupuncture practice, and I realize I'm always a fan for entrepreneurs in the beginning. There's two schools of thought go Blazing Saddles and give everything you got and don't have a plan B or get a part-time job. So the money stress doesn't clobber you. And depending on who you are, there's no right answer. You have to go with whatever rhythm. Like if the money is going to constantly take away your energy to create. I recommend the part-time job. If your stress doesn't bother you when it comes to money and you're like, I always know there's more than like no playing great option. Yeah. And so I think I'm an anxious guy when it comes to money. I'm fiscally responsible. So I realized I needed a part-time job. But the listeners, I'm sure you've been there, even if it's been 10, 20, 30 years ago, you open up the want ads or now you look at Craig's List and you're like, I'm not qualified for any of this. And if I am qualified, I'm overqualified. Yeah. And I remember seeing a job for a sales rep for an independently owned tennis club that owns three or four fitness centers. And they were looking for a corporate sales guy. And I'm like, how do I want to sell memberships? But I'll go in there and maybe pitch them and I pitch them. You need an advisory board to the medical community. Like, you need a pediatrician, an orthopedic surgeon, and a chiropractor, and an acupuncturist that are going to start writing scripts to your club. That's right. And so I pitch like a straight-up, like monthly very conservative salary. And they went for it. And I did that for a while. And then from there, I realized I was really missing the Chinese medicine community and. I wanted to get back into it, and serendipity has always worked for me. So really, when I believe all that work from Tony Robbins. Like, if you think about an architect, an architect often writes down the draft from the vision they have on the CAD or some other computer program or they handwrite it. And once it's hand-drawn, it goes from a vision to a material reality. Yeah. And so with my clients and with myself, I've always written. Now, what am I looking for? What do I want? What does it feel like? What does it look like? And then I get specific. So I wrote down that I wanted this part-time job that paid full-time benefits and in Chinese medicine and top school in the nation was looking for a coach that understood the acupuncture world. And basically, what I wrote down, they were offering and they were doing a national search. And so I did that for 10 years, which is, you know, my pop side, which is academia. And I learned how to get grants from the NIH, not so much get them. But I was on like a pre scholar program where I learned hardcore research in complementary and alternative medicine. And I was a department chair, so I learned how meetings were run and enrollment cycles and kind of the ins and outs. And it's about 2004. I started a part-time coaching firm and I've been doing that ever since. And it just moved to full time and it just got bigger and better and more fall. And it's what I love to do is help the small business owners live healthy lives and make money. Yeah, it's really possible to do it.
Chris Snyder [00:18:37] What do you classify as a small business? I mean, is it less than 10 million a year and top-line revenue? I know, I'm being super-specific.
Jason Stein [00:18:44] But yes, typically I think the definition is 250 or smaller. But I often work with individuals that have no one on their team because they've outsourced it all, you know, for like two or three people, Max. So I work with the really small guy. But it's amazing that the really small people, sometimes they're making, you know, half a million.
Chris Snyder [00:19:09] Yeah. So I was talking to one of my colleagues today about this. And one of the things that I've noticed as the pandemic has happened and as things are changing rapidly. Everything is centralizing on very large companies. When I say everything, I mean, you know, food, travel. You know, big marketplaces like Amazon in food delivery services like Instacart. And it's just slowly and methodically what it feels like. It's wiping out the small business.
Jason Stein [00:19:49] Of course, you look at Amazon and just think about the number of businesses that they've wiped out bookstores to start with. But then pretty much battery stores, car parts, stores like Just the list is endless. And so I think we're headed there where the brick and mortar will be kind of like the unique boutique shop.
Chris Snyder [00:20:14] Yeah. Do we want to walk down? I know this might be a little bit off-topic, but I think it's relevant because what we're really I think both of us are trying to figure out. You've been doing this a long time and me a little bit more recently, we're trying to figure out, in my opinion, how to help people make a successful and profitable business built on relationships without working 70 hours a week, which sacrifices your marriage and sacrifices your children and sacrifices your life for what? So eventually you can wake up one day and have, you know, Amazon run you over or Walmart. Right.
Jason Stein [00:20:53] COVID? But that like how many restaurants, Piers, are going out of business this next month, right?
Chris Snyder [00:20:58] Yeah. So but do we really want to live in a world where I mean, I live in a small, walkable community here in Hermosa and Los Angeles. It's walkable. Everybody knows each other. The karate studio is right down the road. There's a, you know, a burrito place right down the road. And then across from that, there's a grocery, a little cash and carry grocery store right next to that. Do we want to walk through our neighborhoods and not have access to entrepreneurs that build quality things and run quality businesses because we want something? Right now and a little bit cheaper from Amazon, is that the world we really want to live in?
Jason Stein [00:21:42] It's not the world I want to live in, but I think you have to be really clear about what you're wanting. So for me, I'm against Amazon. So last year, I gave up Prime. You know, now I'm against big banks. So two and a half years ago, I pried myself away from Chase. Right. I'm against centralized banks. So last year was the first year that I learned how to take a client on for Bitcoin. Like, these things aren't rocket science. But you have to do the things that aren't easy. They're so simple. But the simplest things are sometimes the hardest to do. Giving up Amazon. Was simple. But it's not easy. It's like now what I do is I go to Amazon and I look at the reviews because it's really helpful to see thousand people like this product over that product and that product out one star and buy it direct. Takes very little time. And my hope is the listeners, you're willing to take those steps because you have a lot of buying power when it starts being masses. Right? Like, if everyone stopped going to Walmart and everyone stopped buying from Amazon, they would change. They would have to change out of necessity.
Chris Snyder [00:23:01] Yeah, we have to figure out how does not only support the entrepreneurs who are taking a massive risk to do quality things that help out the community. But we also have to think about what the future of all of this is when everything is just big tech, big distribution centers somewhere far away that brings a box, drops it off at your door and that disappears. Who knows where the box goes? Who knows who the people are that are bringing it right? It's just I think and by the way, consumer trends and consumer preferences away from big. So this whole PPP loan thing has really opened my eyes and I think a lot of people's eyes to the power of relationships, which is how you started this show. If you are with a small bank re small regional bank or credit union. You got your loan. I was listening to a podcast the other day. There was a woman with a small regional bank in Oklahoma that about three hundred million dollars in assets. She put her cell phone on the Web site. Now they only service this small community. I think it's Norman, Oklahoma, or something along those lines. But the deposits that run that bank are from the community.
Jason Stein [00:24:24] Oh, yeah. No, I have a client. Small bank. Out of Northern California. Her banker called her on Sunday just to make sure that she had everything in order. Right. And then I have another client, Wells Fargo, who probably dished out millions and millions and millions before her very small business. Oh, of course it did. I think we got to take back the power. We have to take back the power in dollars. And we definitely have to take back the power of health. Like a lot of my clients are wellness providers and wellness providers can make a very good living, but they have to start to understand business. Yeah, you look at big business, it comes down to finance. It comes down to medical. Right. It comes down to supply chains. And so we have a CSA, we go to the farmer's market to pick it up, you know. We - my wife is a physician but does telemedicine. So we're both 100 percent remote. Wow. We can pick up. And a year ago, I wanted to see if we could live six weeks in London and continue to work in the beta test when it really well. So that's two years ago. And now every year we're taking longer trips and we're starting to see what's it like to have work, be a part of the living pie rather than the majority part. Because a majority of people, when I was in the hospital treating with Chinese medicine, were getting sick from the place they spent most of their waking hours, which is their workplace. And if your workplace is killing you. You gotta get creative. You have to redesign your life as a client. Talk about that. I want to say one more thing, Chris, just to speak over you. But just last week, I had a new client who was diagnosed with a terminal illness. Right. A young person was diagnosed with a terminal illness and they had been putting in. 60, 70 hours worth of work every week, every year, year after year. So you gotta start to think end game, what is it? If I faced my own mortality, what do I want to spend my days doing?
Chris Snyder [00:27:07] Yeah. That you don't wake up. You're any elderly person or relative of yours or anyone you've ever spoken to never wakes up. And they say, I should have spent another day with all these work people working. They don't. Said no one ever. Right. Right. But the reason why and I'm glad you finished that comment because it actually is it's super important to the question that I was gonna ask you. Western medicine, medicine vs. or Eastern medicine, I guess, versus Western medicine. I feel like we're really good at trauma. You go out, you read your motorcycle, they've got to cut off your leg. And they've got all kinds of cool stuff for that. But I don't feel like we've done anything material as it relates to advice, planning in the classroom to get kids ready to think about how they need to take care of themselves. Has there been any advances in Western medicine as relates to disease and mental health? And mental health is pretty good to be a big issue, in your view and based on what you've learned. Is there been any advancement at all or anyone doing this right now?
Jason Stein [00:28:23] Well, there's a few isolated areas like the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota has an acupuncturist on staff. There's pockets. The Cleveland Clinic hasn't herbalist. Right. And so when you look across the nation, you'll see some Chinese medicine. Some have noses, some experiment with body touch, but then politics get involved. And it's like, well, we're not going to call it massage - we're going to call it therapeutic touch. Right. So so to answer it, I think this is where I say you've got to take back your health. As we've watched in your in my lifetime, I'm a bit older than you of going from pretty good health care to really three minutes scrips of like you get your three minutes and then you get your prescription. And part of the challenge is there's such a vested interest in money profit for yourself.
Chris Snyder [00:29:32] Do you think that. That companies like insurance companies and medical organizations should be publicly held.
Jason Stein [00:29:44] You know, it's interesting because I think that health care should be publicly held. We look at the stats and, you know, the Senate shoots this down and you'll have people just make stuff up about socialized medicine, but it works everywhere else in the world where the profit center for Medicine. And when you think about isn't it a basic human right that everyone should receive medical care? And it happens in Canada. It happens in Mexico. It happens and in all, first world countries except the United States. So I think we have to think when we start to look at the U.S. when you have people staying in positions because they don't want to lose their health care. And you have thirty-five million-plus uninsured individuals and you have people that don't really get maternity leave. So if you have a new child in your life, you have to keep working. And you look at the average American and the amount of savings that they have. It's like a runaway train. Yeah. And so the biggest thing you can do in the land of entrepreneurship is you've got to start with your health because if you're not healthy enough to weather the storms and to take on the stress and to really rise up, it's going to be the health care that takes you out.
Chris Snyder [00:31:17] Yeah, living in fear. Taking all the risk, being a creator, working really hard. And then on top of that, living in fear that your wife or your children are not going to have the same access to education as someone that works at Google or Facebook. They're not going to have the same access to health care as someone that works at Google or Facebook or Netflix or name Amazon or name it. Go ahead. Name it. It's almost. I mean, I hate to sound a little controversial here. I'm pretty capitalistic, but I'm also a small business owner and I know how much I pay for insurance every month. It would probably shock you, would probably shock most. It's in the tens of thousands. It's not a hundred thousand dollars a year for health insurance for a family of four, but it's close. So. If you're living in fear that your basic needs are not going to be taken care of. I don't think you can be the best you can be. You can't be as productive as you need to. That doesn't mean that we need to go around in and handed out. I'm not suggesting that. But I'm also suggesting probably like you. We have to figure out a different alternative. To make this machine go.
Jason Stein [00:32:36] Even before that. Because that's gonna take a while to figure out. We have to take our health on at a whole nother level. So, you know, you go into any supermarket and really it's pretty toxic in the middle. And if you shop around the corners, you can get Whole Foods. But. I just watched this Amazon plus I just scanned a couple episodes and it was about the Nazi regime and really what they were doing was infiltrating. It was fictitious, to my knowledge, but they were infiltrating the US by bringing in corn syrup.
Chris Snyder [00:33:18] Imagine that. Well, if this is a fictitious thing, it sure did stick.
Jason Stein [00:33:22] And would there's a scene in and I wish I could recall, the listeners probably know what I'm talking about, but there's a scene where, you know, the woman that's pitching it to the suppliers, they say we can't take taste the difference between A and B.. And she goes, yeah, but A is going to cost you so much less than your profit margins are going to be so much higher. There's just one cost. It's going to kill people. Yeah. That's all. That's it.
Chris Snyder [00:33:55] That's OK. Right. As long as big-time gets the profits and they get their Ferrari's and they get their offices and their buildings and then it's fine. Right.
Jason Stein [00:34:05] So. So here's where I stand on it. Become an educated consumer. It's not that all small businesses are great businesses and they're led by great people. You have to do the research of what are their backgrounds and what do they stand for. And do they live their core values within their companies? And when you can bring it smaller, it may be that you're paying a little bit more for the services. But you at the same time are going to get the customer service when you need it. Customer service right now. You could build a business on cut just great customer service because it's such a dying art.
Chris Snyder [00:34:47] So let's talk about your officially known as a wellness business coach. So getting back to some of the businesses that you support, small business, I don't know if you have any pizza shops, but when I think of a small business, you know, I literally get pizza from a local pizza place here probably seven times a month. Yeah, Pete called Beach Pizza. Yeah. And they're always the same people in there. They're always happy. We call each other by first names. They know what I'd like when even when they answer the phone, they know that it's us. And but if you were to walk into an organization like that, I don't know how big they are, but maybe they do a half a million dollars a year on top-line revenue. I have no idea. Yeah, maybe they have seven or eight employees or maybe 10. What are some of the things you would suggest that someone from a small business that they're probably open seven days a week? What are some of the things that you do for your clients? How do you help them as a wellness business coach? Kind of what? Take me through some of the steps.
Jason Stein [00:35:55] Yeah. So I'm generally I used to work with organizations where I created a program called Meditation in the Workplace. And so what I would do is I would bring in what are mindfulness skills, because when you look at like Google, they have a complete program called Search Inside Yourself, and they allow all of the employees to go through this. And it is a way to tap into mindfulness. And when you can be more mindful. Lots of magic happens. Now, a company like that also often isn't spending enough time in meetings, being productive for everyone. And so it's often a top-down approach. If, like we've decided to do this, let's go. Let's you know, we've changed our policy on the way we're opening. We've changed our policy. We need you to stay an extra hour to close. And there isn't any discussion. And when you look at big companies like Simon's corporations or any of the big ones that are super successful, they're a collaborative environment. And when you can create a collaborative environment where the employees that are on the street level that see all the challenges can start feeling safe, speaking, shopping, generating ideas, you start to get possibilities. And with new possibilities, you find solutions that weren't there before. So this pizza company probably hires a consultant that works with all the pizza companies and they're inside the box of the pizza industry. This is the way it's done. And we have to look at like a perfect example is gravity payments. And Dan Price, you know, several years ago decided to pay everyone seventy thousand dollars. Right. Or there's a paddle your paddle boarder. I think the board company that started experimenting. What's it like to have people have four-day workweek? Yeah. Right. And when we start, like, imperfect produce all that stuff we used to throw away. How about we create a company out of it and imperfect produce? We'll take the like doing the apples and deliver them to your doorstep. And when you can start to find solutions from the problems, we're just in a better space. And that's what I think Elon Musk is a genius at. Yeah. He looks at where the problems are and then he finds solutions and then people are crazy enough to support them in beta testing what the solutions may be.
Chris Snyder [00:38:31] Yeah, well, he's. I'll just say he doesn't give a shit. I mean, that guy. And you know what? Honestly, if we had more people looking to actually create value and be builders, yeah. You create real value instead of takers and consumers of other people's stuff. Yeah. You know, we have a thing in our house. You know, if our kids want to buy something, I'm like, look, you got to build something. Yeah. Want to buy something? You got to build something. You want to buy something. You got to build something. So I don't care if you build Legos for an hour and show to me, it's like, then that's worth something. Now you can potentially think about buying something. But Elan is a builder, right? He builds stuff that people actually need. And he's worked. This has been going on for 20 years. Right. I mean, this isn't Tesla's space X. These companies are not new companies.
Jason Stein [00:39:27] But I think what happens is we see someone like Elon Musk and we think, oh, that's an outlier. That's unique. We couldn't be like that. And I'm saying it doesn't take much if you just take a little bit of that. Like if you're, again, the pizza shop and you're going for the pizza consultant, you're going to get the 3-color Crayola pack rather than the 64-color and you really, in these times, you gotta get outside the box. So a lot of my clients are wellness providers, brick and mortar. And when this happened. They just had to shut their doors because of governmental policies. And if the state and the government shut you down, you then got to get in line for the AKP loan and doesn't come in, or does it come not come in? And I realized it was becoming a time of the pivot. So the lean startup came into play. And it's really super important that we pay attention to that, because if we can start to pivot, what I did is I created a crash course in telehealth. And within two weeks, got the materials, got the course up and running. Decided to collaborate with someone that was way ahead of me with their list building and with the audience, and also had the platform to build an on and, you know, a hundred dollar course, 50 people in with a weak launch. Yeah, right. And then we captured it and then we got it approved for professional development for CS. So you have to start to think - how do I play a long game of sustainability with a short game, a pivot. I noticed right away when this went down with COVID that everybody's Facebook ads didn't get changed. So people are sheltering in an in lockdown. And you're seeing the same feed on Facebook. That's a company that just is not on it. Right. Like in the beginning no one had masks on their advertising. So they're missing the mark. And if you're not connected with the relationships of your strategic alliances, of your current clients, of your past clients. You're going to become an 8-track tape in a world of digital media.
Chris Snyder [00:42:00] Yeah, well, it's interesting because in advertising, if you think about it and we're similarly aged. But when I grew up, there were three channels, maybe four. There was an actually an HBO box on top of the God damn TV. Yeah. And. So we went from this era of literally, if you put a commercial out, everybody in the world saw everybody in the United States watch ABC, CBS, and NBC. That was it. And if you were fortunate enough to get HBO for 10 bucks a month and they put the little box on your TV, everyone else had the antennas and then we decided, like, OK, let's make this into four hundred channels. So now we had to have. You know, millions of shows. If you think about this from a data standpoint, you've got 300 channels with all these shows. You've got Comcast. You've got Frontier. You've got. And so the word is literally carpet-bombing people. Yeah. And then you get the tech guys and gals, they come in and they say, well, we're really good at data and data science in scale and analytics and rails and. Ethernet cables and routers, and we're gonna take all this stuff, we're gonna put it online, and then we're going to create algorithms that try to grab what I would consider to be maybe these private networks within this mass audience. All right. We're gonna try to grab them and then we're gonna have them kind of feed off of each other. And they're only gonna see what they're supposed to see. Yeah, which, by the way, I don't believe is super helpful as we continue our transition during COVID and after COVID. And I guess my point is. I think what we should be doing and I think you and I are doing this right now, we're building meaningful quality private networks like literally one by one. And I'm not saying you can do that with millions and millions like Dollar Shave Club razors are for everyone. Don't. But for most people, you're not going to build a dollar shave club. For most people, you're not going to build a Gillette or you're not going to build something that is good for a billion people. Right. So in my view, and I don't know how you feel about this, I think we need to be focused on building highly engaged private networks. You know, similar to what we're doing today, we're building actual relationships. We'll trade notes after the call. We'll promote each other on LinkedIn and other social mediums so we can actually find like a private network that actually matters because I don't think a lot of these networks matter. Where do you think this thing is headed? You've got your set of clients. But where do you think this thing is headed as far as, like a big mass scale or private networks?
Jason Stein [00:44:50] It's interesting because I think it's going to head in both directions. So the answer is yes. The bigger networks are going to spend more money buying the smaller networks and try to hold on with every grip that they have. And the smaller networks are going to also say, I'm not for sale and kind of do their own thing. Now, the beautiful thing is like the analogy I use is like a church congregation. Like, if you think about a church, they can run off 150 to 200 members and be sustainable. And I'm guessing for your listeners, their newsletter is more than that. Yeah. So then if you're giving good ministry, for lack of a better word and you're sharing your medicine message and you have a good product or service, but you're doing it in an engaged way, stop looking at breath and go for depth. I agree.
Chris Snyder [00:45:49] Hundred percent. Let me ask you a question. Since you've got medicine and entrepreneurship. Well, how do you feel about this new trend in marijuana? Can a boy, you know, cannabinoids the like? I'm not an expert on this stuff. It's prevalent CBD oils. What do you think about this stuff? What kind of advice can you give us or what?
Jason Stein [00:46:16] Well, the first thing I think is like it's the wild, wild West right now. And CBD is like the profit margins have been really high and they're going to go down because the crops themselves got overproduced. And so we're going to see CBG come to the market. And cannabinoids, like when you break it down at a cellular level, they're just going to keep bisecting cannabis two different ways. Now, how do I feel? What do I think? I think that there aren't enough medical providers that are really researching. So research is really new here because the government is kind of said, you know, that's a felony. We're not making it a, you know, recreational until Rete, we're talking just like on the life span days, you know, really in the first decade and the CBD. And so my concern is just quality control. I think these things are very powerful when they come to mind-altering. And what like anything, they can be used for forces of good or forces of evil. So for the companies that are doing their research and they're hiring people and they're educating and they almost are like the supplemental like standard process or some of the companies in vitamins that are at the higher level. I think they're doing a relatively good job because there are people that have 8D or cancer or lots of things that could really benefit from CBD or from cannabis, but. You're opening up a whole window of what's the safety of it? And I don't mean safety. Like, you know, there's this big argument, you know, Stone people don't kill people, right? No, but they may waste their life. Right. And so there's a balance. There's a balance to all things. And my hope is public health continues to invest in education because I actually, as a Chinese medicine practitioner, candidacies in IRB and in Erb's can heal. But herbs are also toxic. Right. And so you need to know what part of the hers does what. And how can it be helpful?
Chris Snyder [00:48:42] Got it. Let's talk about supplements. Yeah, I see. And I grew up with supplements. You know, when I was in college, I took creatine. And I mean, you never know with a vitamin. You go to GNC, you get your protein powder, you get, there's all kinds of supplements. There's hundreds of thousands of these things out there. Yeah. What's your view on supplements just in general?
Jason Stein [00:49:05] My view is that every single person for COVID, productivity, or protection should be on supplements. Now, my view is also baseline. Testing is important like vitamin D. Really, really important. But also can be toxic. And so even if you live in Huntington Beach or in sunny San Diego, if you're feeling off and you're feeling depressed and you tested and everything's kind of normal, get your vitamin D baseline test. The baseline will give you the numbers. And then I think everyone should be on zinc, vitamin D, vitamin C and then from their symptoms specific like men's health. There are prostate formulas that I find are really effective. And so I'm a fan of high-quality supplements and often they aren't found at GNC. They're down like, I believe if your state has naturopaths, which are natural pathic physicians. They study this for like four years where the regular M.D. maybe took a survey class in it. Right. And so if you're really wanting to get on a supplement regime, get a consult. It's worth the investment.
Chris Snyder [00:50:31] How how many because you've been in this a long time. And if I think to myself, the first thing it's interesting, like maybe 10 years ago I bought this gigantic natural book. I don't know why did it. It's probably because. Same with you. Someone probably told me, like, well, I don't know, we've tried everything. And I'm like, God, can't we just put some tomatoes on it or something or something stupid like that? So I bought one of these books. And I mean, I got to tell you, I. I said it in the drawer, and if something happens, a kid gets a burn or whatever, you know, you figure it out. Ultimately, I put Neosporin on it. But. Well, how would you suggest or guide? Because in my mind, to go to a Chinese medicine place, it's probably not covered by insurance. I'm making that statement. I have no idea. That's why I'm asking the question. It's probably not covered by insurance is probably not in a store near you. How did how does someone even start their journey in trying to figure out how to take a different approach to alternative health care like Chinese medicine?
Jason Stein [00:51:34] You know, you'd be surprised that the smaller towns even now have someone that knows and Chinese medicine, the acupuncture part of it, often is covered by your insurance. It's just the phone call to ask. Amazing. The herbs are often out of pocket, but riders and insurance are starting to do the analytics to see that those that are using complementary and alternative medicine actually are having less appointments like theirs. The numbers are showing that this is a cost savings. We have to include two things. One is if people get an hour with an alternative practitioner, you get the emotional well-being check as well, where if you go into your provider, you might get three minutes like there. Really, it's a numbers game in the Western system. So that's part of it. Then why do we always rule out placebo? What's wrong with the placebo? Placebo is really effective. And if we start to include it in the healing, a lot of magic can happen with the return to health.
Chris Snyder [00:52:42] The mind is a powerful thing, man.
Jason Stein [00:52:44] So powerful, so and so is the body like I do kettlebell training. My wife's strong for certified and. And there's something about like working out at a tough level that mental toughness is important in life. Mental fortitude is something we don't talk a lot about because, you know, we can order door dash and Uber eats and sit and watch one of five thousand channels on 16 different devices in our home. And like we can live by not leaving the house. Like sheltering in today was like a thousand times easier than in the eighties.
Chris Snyder [00:53:27] But you couldn't have held us kids back. I can almost guarantee you that. I think I was effectively told to leave at like 8:00 a.m. and then told to come home and the strike came late.
Jason Stein [00:53:38] Get on your bike. I don't want to see you till dinner.
Chris Snyder [00:53:41] Yeah, that was it.
Jason Stein [00:53:42] Yeah. My favorite book because I have four kids and free-range parents.
Chris Snyder [00:53:47] I've heard of that. Is that is that the lady who put her kid on the New York subway and is there is a big uproar about that. She wrote a book about it.
Jason Stein [00:53:56] Yeah, he was 11, I believe. And she wrote an article about putting him because it was his dream to ride the subway by himself and returned home. And she wrote an article and people just let her up on fire. They were like, that's child abuse. You should be arrested. And she started doing the research. And it like we all if you're a parent, you've seen helicopter parents. Yeah. And the challenge with being a helicopter parent is who knows what times we're headed into. And if your child doesn't have fortitude and resilience, creative brainstorming like these are needed for the times that we're entering into, because if we take COVID it off the table, then we have riots, which, you know, I think the protests, the healthy protests are important. But we have a whole upheaval happening right now. If we take that off the table, we have global climate changes. Right. If we take that off the table, we look at the water and the drought that's happening. And so I think it's really important for helicopter parents to love your child. But lessons are so important at an early age to learn resilience. Otherwise, that child's not going to know what to do if shit really hits the fan.
Chris Snyder [00:55:20] Yeah. But we're I feel like and I don't know if I can quantify this. Who knows if there's a study on it. I feel like we're way less resilient than we used to be. We're way less accountable. We as a as a society and maybe it's, you know, due to the impact of social media, this ability to become anonymous in nasty. Without backing up any of your nastiness with facts and just to beat overall a troll and a nasty person, you're right. These things are happening. Yeah. And then the other comment I'll make about, you know, raising children, really our job is to make sure they can take care of themselves. Yeah. In if in his heart, as it is, it is gut-wrenching as it is to allow your kid, your 10-year-old and your eight-year-old to get on a bike and ride two miles to a park by themselves. That doing that hard work. Now, in my opinion, helps them be a better person later. Mm hmm. Right.
Jason Stein [00:56:27] And you have to have the fortitude for yourself because like, I live in Portland, big city. I started having my older children. I have one, three, twelve, and sixteen. And the older children, I started making them ride public transit at ten. Wow. And because of basketball practice. Yeah. And parents wanted to light me on fire. But now my oldest got into Rotary and like, we're still on hold. But if everything's good, she's gonna go to Columbia for the year. She has taken advanced classes as a sophomore for college credit and she feels comfortable in different environments because that was part of her upbringing.
Chris Snyder [00:57:15] She's the future CEO. She's the woman that goes to the boardroom and tells the dudes, fuck you. I've been riding public transit since I was ten and taking care of my one-year-old brother or sister.
Jason Stein [00:57:27] Yeah, every day of our class, she takes care of them. Yeah. Yeah. That's what's wrong with that. There's nothing wrong. I'm just saying that you need to be prepared for the hate because you were talking about the trolls letting people. These are trolls. These are your neighbors. Yeah. Judging you. And there's something about judgment these days that there's no longer evidence-based support for what you're doing. You're either in or you're out. You're with us or you're not with us. And we need to start to come together to say there's differences. And if you keep your kids safe, you love them. You teach them. You're doing a good job now. You said, Chris, how do you begin to educate yourself about health and wellbeing? And I think you just start with the library. Pick a book that you're interested in. And then most people live near a natural foods store. And those natural foods stores have lectures. Go attend a couple of lectures and you'll find a teacher or someone that's growing herbs in their backyard garden or someone that understands something that you're interested in. And you just start you accumulate a little bit more knowledge on the natural world. And this is something we don't talk a lot about, is the natural. We've built brick and mortar around us and we're all on technology all day. It's like everyone I know's on Zoom meetings, 30 hours, 40 hours a week. And I don't believe that's the healthiest approach. And if you're doing that because that's where you are right now, then there's ways to counterbalance and those counterbalance points like turning your Wi-Fi off at night. It's like, there's simple things you could be doing that make a big difference.
Chris Snyder [00:59:25] Get off the news stations. Stop watching your phone. Yeah. Stop watching TV less, you know, an hour before you go to bed. Just try it. It's so hard, though. It's like. It's like, I don't know. I've never done crack. But I'm assuming it's like crack. You can't. Everybody walks around with these things and it's not healthy. This is the biggest human unvalidated human experiment in history. And I think the effects are going to be not good.
Jason Stein [00:59:56] Twenty three, we are seeing we are already seeing the effects. And so I don't know if you've read Unselfie?
Chris Snyder [01:00:03] I haven't.
Jason Stein [01:00:04] Yeah. So good book. And what we're finding is that the screen habit is the only habit that no one is saying is a problem. I mean, everyone says it's a problem, but no one's doing anything about it. And when you have a 10-year old that has an epic meltdown because they can't have their phone or even that they have a phone. There's some issues that we should address. And I'm not judging. I'm just saying we have to make the simple changes that are the hardest to do. So if we get back to my clients, I generally work with two sectors. One are wellness providers that are bringing health and wellness to have people have healthier and they're independent. And the other are independent contractors or business owners that have a service in the world that they want the world to be a healthier place. So they may be like an outsourced CFO. They may be working on an app like Farm to Table. And what I do is I help them track with their health and they have the accountability and support. And then I help them grow their business at the same time because that is the yin and yang to me: it's healthy life, healthy business.
Chris Snyder [01:01:22] So how do you...I Want to come back to this mindfulness thing? I want to tackle a mindfulness thing. Since you mentioned apps farm to table, I think you specifically, but I want to tackle, like, Calm, Headspace. You mentioned mindfulness a little bit earlier. Yeah. Describe this stuff a little bit. Let us know if these are good things to do.
Jason Stein [01:01:50] Headspace is amazing. Calm is amazing, too. But Headspace - There's just something about paying that little money if you're using it every day. It's just plug and play now. Yeah. My wife hates wireless. So what she does with her is that she downloads them and then so her phone's not even on. Right. It's just like a big iPhone. Her iPhone is just a big iPod is what it is. Headspace. I really appreciate there's usually a million other people meditating. I use it every day, but there's simple things I do like. I use the inside timer on my phone. And before any client, any meeting, if I have made the requests for the meeting, then I always do one minute before I begin. That's great. And I can't tell you I was nervous in the beginning. Like people would think that I was too weirdo, zany. And the number of times I've been thanked for helping someone just take a minute before moving to the next thing has been tenfold. I was worried people were going to like not want to work with me or all sorts of things. So one-minute mindfulness - super important. I think healthy eating can be done very easily with some simple changes. And then there's things like gratitude. When you look at the science of gratitude, it's there that gratitude people that cultivate gratitude on a regular basis are happier. And so when my kids were born, we started doing grateful that dinner. And we always eat dinner at the dinner table and we always do gratitude before we eat. And we go right. We go around the table and, you know, every now and then we'll miss and like the 17, the 16-year-old or the 12-year-old will be like, Hey, Gratitudes. Cause it's ingrained. So the last thing I'll say, coaching is important because we were inside our own realm and it's like that pizza shop owner that just goes to the pizza consultant. You have to find rhythms that work for you. The business owner. For some people, you love yoga, for other people. You hate yoga. There is no templated model in business of just follow my one, two, three template and you'll find the pot of gold. That does not work that way. What does work is being simple and being consistent.
Chris Snyder [01:04:27] Yeah. And I think at the end of the day, you just need someone to talk to. It's a lonely, hard thing to be a business owner. And I don't say that, you know, in a whiny fashion. I say that because it's true. You think you're tough, but go 10, 12, 15, 20 years or like your father did. Maybe 40 years or however long. Who did he have to talk to? Yeah, I mean, you just need someone to talk to that understands and I think it's more than. Then the balance sheet and I think it's more than the P&L.
Jason Stein [01:05:07] Yeah, well, you know, I blend in the emotions because I'm trained in motivational interviewing. I'm trained in emotional intelligence. And I think you have to leave space for both. Yeah. The Japanese. It's rude to jump into a business meeting without checking in to see how the other person is doing. And so I run mastermind groups, which I think are incredibly effective. And I usually put teams of four to six entrepreneurs together and they meet twice a month and then they have a WhatsApp thread where they can check in at any time. And everybody in the group knows what everybody else is up to. That's great. And the challenge with Mastermind's that I found in the entrepreneur world is that they're like thousand dollar or two thousand dollar programs and it's too much. It's like, gotta get it down to a simple like, what would it cost to go to therapy like three, four times, you know, a month and go in there. And I love doing them because we've watched people. I have one client that during COVID she has four times the amount of revenue that she had before. And I have one client going through a divorce. So it's all included, right? It's there's only one us. And I think that's where we're headed as entrepreneurs. Is it used to be you would put your clothes on, you go to work, you'd have your workday, you'd come home and you'd have your family life. And we're moving into a time of one person that does multiple things rather than split personality. And people often asked me, should I have a business Facebook page or a personal page? Right. And according to Facebook rules, you're not allowed to promote yourself so you can have a business page. But even if you have one account, include all of yourself there.
Chris Snyder [01:07:10] Yeah, well, it's because I like to you know, there's a lot of you've probably heard this a lot. Work-life balance. I obviously from the beginning of the show, I know your stance on it and I don't disagree with you. We went to 40 hour work weeks, not a minute more a very long time ago. I think if you get laser-focused, you get off your goddamn phone while you're at work and you get laser-focused with your mind and you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. I think you should easily be able to knock out your work in a three or four hour day in candidly if you're going to the office, you're wasting four hours a day at the WaterCooler and going to lunch and doing everything, all the other social activities. You know, if you want to come home to your family and you want to live a more meaningful life, you can get work done in three or four hours a day if you can.
Jason Stein [01:07:59] I agree. I agree. I actually think that if we had like a 24 hour work week and then you have the remainder for eight hours for creativity time, because that creativity time, like I created something a couple of years ago, I let it go and I'm going to turn it back on. Called Chocolate Strategy Sessions.
Chris Snyder [01:08:19] I saw it on your Web site, on your LinkedIn Actually.
Jason Stein [01:08:21] It was laid back and like I did 30 minutes of hardcore business coaching for your favorite chocolate. And we had a chocolate draw in our refrigerator that was overflowing from chocolate around the world. Oh, my gosh. Like mocha chocolate, Peruvian chocolate, like around the world. And what I realized was two things. And this is the beautiful thing about ideas and business wine. I was getting fat. How is he? Lots of chocolate. And two, I didn't build the system out. I have a workflow, a follow-up. So I gained a few clients, but I was getting disappointed that it wasn't worth my time. And it was worth my time. I just didn't build out the entire system.
Chris Snyder [01:09:07] I want to I really want to work with you on some of this stuff because I feel like we're aligned. Now, look, I'm not saying that I put in twenty-five hour work weeks, and I know you don't, Jason. So let's just be clear. We both work really hard. Hopefully it feels a little bit better because we're doing what we love to do. We're well compensated. We live nice lives. Let's be clear. And I believe that me working a little bit more. Maybe 60 hours a week might be too much, but, you know, 40 to 50 hours a week is probably a good, good rule of thumb as you come up on some age that you should have enough skills to be a little bit more efficient than when you were 22. You're 22. Go get your work on. Please go get your work on. If you're 45 and 50, please figure out a way to do things more carefully and thoughtful and mindful. And you can provide more value actually at our age because you've seen a lot. You've done a lot. Yeah. But one thing I'd like to leave our audience with as we wrap this up is I really want to work with you on the chocolate thing because we got to get the big businesses are taking care of it. And when I say big businesses, Ivan, even the mid-market is defined by like mid-market dot org as 20 million to a billion. I don't know about you, but I don't run a 20 million dollar company. I don't have one hundred employees. I used to have 30, but that about killed me and my business partner. So we're talking to people right now that are running businesses with one to 10, maybe 15 to one. Like, we got to figure out a way to help scale these folks. So we all get run over by the Amazons of the world health care systems of the world. But. One thing I'd love for you to do, Jason, is leave us with one or two bits of advice. You've lived a. You've lived a lot. You've seen a lot. If you had to give us advice on what we should think about what we should do moving forward. Go ahead and give that to us right now. All right.
Jason Stein [01:11:18] So one tip is: find a peer accountability or facilitated mastermind or some sort of accountability loop, because if you're like me and you're left up to your own device, you know, you're gonna be eating potato chips, watching the Discovery Channel or whatever your favorite show and so on.
Chris Snyder [01:11:38] God I love Discovery.
Jason Stein [01:11:39] Yes. Get some accountability. Whether it's paid or free. But get something that you can lean in. So that would be the first tip is don't do it alone. If you're doing it alone, it's not going to be easy and it probably is not going to work out. The second thing I invite you to do is get a regular grounding practice daily. And for somebody that might be paddleboarding on the ocean every morning, for someone else, for me with four kids. Things are crazy, right? Yeah. I meditate for ten minutes. I do use headspace every single morning. And it makes the difference between being centered and getting blown over, but every day. So get a grounding practice if you're not sure what grounding practice it is. Chocolate strategy sessions are coming back online. Take one and it's going to cost you your favorite chocolate and do what you love, right?
Chris Snyder [01:12:43] I mean, if you have a question, just figure out what you love the most. That's irresistible. And just fucking do it right.
Jason Stein [01:12:50] Yeah. And look at revenue streams. So the third thing is you have to be sustainable. Like, if you're not sustainable, you go out of business. So you have to look at what's the lowest hanging fruit. And what are the strategic alliances? And that's where I've really built my businesses. I'm not stellar on social media. My newsletter is good, but it's not fantastic. But I have the best strategic alliances that I know now.
Chris Snyder [01:13:18] Relationships. That's where we kick this thing off. That's how we all grew up. So we've got relationships, we've got accountability. We've got routine. There's so many great things to unpack here. Jason Stein is a wellness business coach who offers a unique approach to well-being in the workplace. Jason? Jason Stein, dot com. It is Jason Stein dot com. It'll be in the show notes. You'll see it all on the podcast and the Web site. Thank you so much for coming today. I had a great time.
Jason Stein [01:13:53] Chris. It was great seeing you having me. And thank you.